Transcript of TV interview with former Pakistani Prime Minister Mohammed khan Junejo by A.S. Bishtawi

Friday, November 14, 1986

Q: MR. PRIME MINISTER, ON THE EVE OF THE 7TH SUMMIT CONFERENCE OF THE GCC COUNTRIES, HOW DO YOU ASSESS THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF THAT GROUPING SO FAR?

A: Well Mr. Bishtawi, I am grateful that you have come all the way to Pakistan to record my interview on the proposed 7th summit of the Gulf Cooperation Council.
I look forward to the success of the summit which is scheduled next month especially for Pakistan when brotherly countries get together, and especially this forum which has come up. All Arab countries which are members of the GCC, they are Muslim countries and we respect them and we have personal relations with and we welcome this cooperation when all the leaders get together. They are like-minded, they respect each other's thoughts. This time the summit is going to have excellent effects on the general conditions in this region.

Q: MR. PRIME MINISTER, THE CREATION OF THE GCC BACK IN 1981 HAS BROUGHT GREATER STABILITY TO THE GULF AREA AND THE ARABIAN SEA, WHAT WOULD YOU THINK OTHER COUNTRIES SHOULD DO TO ENHANCE THIS ROLE PLAYED BY THE GCC COUNTRIES?

A: Frankly, if you look at the present situation of various continents of the world, it is how things started. Look at the Europeans, they have the European Community, they get together and solve their problems. They solve the issues at regional level, and this has given the result because whenever countries get together this produces good result. Now this cooperation which you are having in the Arab world was initiated in the Gulf in 1981, and you are going to have the 7th summit. This is bound to bring these countries closer to each other. From Pakistan point of view, I'm happy to say that Pakistan looks forward to the success of this movement, because even here in our region we are considered to belong partly to the Arab region and partly to this region which we have now come up with regional countries get together, that is SAARK. This indicates that countries that are neighbours get together, and discuss problems into how. Whenever the regional countries get together, they produce the best success like the European countries, Gulf countries SARRK council they cooperate.

MR. PRIME MINISTER, IN WHAT NEW DIRECTIONS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE PAKISTAN'S RELATIONS DEVELOP WITH EACH OF THE GCC MEMBER STATES?

A: If we look at each of the six member states of the GCC they all have individually direct and excellent relations with Pakistan, all of them, and we don't say that we have any differences generally on any issues, because we all members in the OIC and that gives us a chance to be even closer, and Pakistan has played a very important part in the past to extend allpossible help to these countries. Look at the manpower which is today available in thousands of lakhs in all these countries, and because they are brotherly countries we feel happy that our people should go there and assist our brothers in developing their countries.

MR. PRIME MINISTER, SPEAKING ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, THE ADVERSE ECONOMIC SITUATION IN THE GULF HAS FORCED A LARGE NUMBER OF EXPATRIATES TO RETURN HOME, ARE THERE ANY PLANS PREPARED BY THE PAKISTANI GOVERNMENT TO ABSORB ANY OF EXCESS LABOUR THAT MIGHT BE RETURNING HOME FROM THE GULF AREA?

A: Pakistan always plans how one should look after one's own people. These people were taken to these countries because they required the manpower for the development, and it happens now that there is a recession in that area, and as a result of that some Pakistanis are coming back. I think they are well off, and we have plans for them, and they will be properly looked after in this country. They would not have any problems to look after themselves. They may not be that well off but decidedly they will look after their families and other personal affairs very well, We will see to it.

Q: IS IT SERIOUS? IS IT A SERIOUS PROBLEM?

A: No, I say there is no problem. All these people were in Pakistan, and ifyou look it generally you find that during their absence they also established themselves here in their country. You go to any part of Pakistan and you will see that all those people who worked there they are proudly sending the money here to purchase the land and flats and set up industries, so they realise that one day they have to come back to Pakistan. They have not gone from here for good, so I do not think that there are Pakistanis who feel mentally disturbed about what happen when they come home, not at all!

Q: MR. PRIME MINISTER IF YOU ALLOW ME TO TALK ABOUT WIDER ISSUES, ARE THERE ANY IDEAS THAT PAKISTAN COULD PUT FORWARD, OR ANY MOVE THAT COULD BE TAKEN TO STOP CONTINUING WAR BETWEEN IRAQ AND IRAN?

A: I must say there exists a very sad state of affairs between these two countries. I have looked into this problem for the last one and a half years and this problem has been going on for many years. As a Pakistani, when the war started I really did not realise it could go on for years. I thought the better sense will prevail and things will come to a settlement and these two brotherly governments will be able to sort out their problems. From Pakistan's point of view, I must say that we have taken all possible steps as a Muslim brother to bring about a settlement between the two countries, but I must say we have not really succeeded in that because the stand taken by two brotherly countries is very rigid. So we hope and pray and we will continue our efforts to bring about some settlement on a personal level and on the level of the OIC.

Q: MR. PRIME MINISTER, IF WE TALK ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST, THE STAND OF PAKISTAN IS WELL KNOWN AND APPRECIATED, COULD YOU TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR IDEA OF SOLUTION TO THE MIDDLE EAST PROBLEM, AND BY THAT I MEAN THE PALESTINIAN QUESTION?

A: Pakistan's stand has been very clear not from now but for many decades. From the day Pakistan come into being, the (Palestinian) problem came up. We just raised both our hands and said "we are for our Palestinian brothers, we advocate their cause, and we will do that to that last. We will support their cause.

Q: MR. PRIME MINISTER, IF WE TALK ABOUT THE UNFORTUNATE ACCIDENT THAT TOOK PLACE HERE IN KARACHI, THE PAN AM HIJACKING, HOW WAS IT RECEIVED BY THE ORDINARY PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN?

A: Frankly I must tell you this was very sad. We never expected that any Muslim will come to Pakistan and he will try to hijack a plane of any country in the world. It is very sad, and we have felt it, every Pakistani has felt it because it is a Muslim. I never expected a Muslim to come to this country and do this mischief. It is very sad and we have felt it.

Q: IF WE TALK ABOUT THE AFGHAN PROBLEM, PAKISTAN IS COMMITTED TO A PEACEFUL SOLUTION, HAS THERE BEEN ANY CHANGE ON THIS ISSUE, AND WHAT WILL YOU DO TO ENHANCE THE POSSIBILITY OF ACHIEVING PEACE AND SOLVE THE AFGHAN PROBLEM?

A: If you look at the history of the whole problem, you would see that the Afghan problem was not created by Pakistan but thrust upon Pakistan. The steps taken by Pakistan is the only possible course left for us because when you see your Muslim brothers coming over to you for help, and for a refuge we have to look after them. We have used all possible resources at our command to persuade the superpowers to withdraw from Afghanistan, and give free will to the people of Afghanistan to exercise their right on how they rule themselves. And one day with these efforts we send these brothers back to their country.

Q: ARE THERE ANY PLANS TO VISIT OFFICIALLY ANY ARAB COUNTRIES SOON?

A: I am grateful to the President of the United Arab Emirates because Shaikh Zayed was here and I got my first opportunity to receive him and meet him. I was impressed with his personality and the personal relations he has with Pakistan, the government of Pakistan, the people of Pakistan for many decades. We all hold him in high esteem, and he invited me to visit the UAE, but you know for the last 18 months I have been extremely busy with the internal situation, to left the martial law and establish democracy, and the minute I feel there is some time available my first stop will be Abu Dhabi.

Q: ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS IN PAKISTAN NOW?

A: For the last 10 months, the day the martial law was lifted we have been able to implement real democracy in the country. There is complete freedom of expression, the judiciary has the superiority, they are the people who control and monitor that the constitution is not violated. We are committed to the people of Pakistan. The constitution is passed by the elected people of Pakistan and it is very well in force, and you see everything moving is moving according to the constitution.

Q: DO YOU FIND LIFE AS A PRIME MINISTER DIFFICULT?

A: If I say it is difficult then that would not be the answer. It is a challenge one has to accept for the betterment of one's own country. I accepted the challenge because I was elected by the people of my area as a member of the National Assembly, and the members of the Parliament elected me with an unanimous vote for which I am grateful, and they have given me the chance to serve the country, and this is a challenge I have accepted and I will fulfil it and I will see that democracy given to Pakistan is the real democracy.

Pakistan Looks Outside for Help

By Adel Bishtawi

The Russian involvement in Afghanistan has brought international attention back to Pakistan and its troubled economy. After nearly a year of cool relations, the government of the United States has proposed up to $ 400 million in military and economic assistance for the country; this week, Saudi Arabia and the other Muslim countries will associate their anxiety at the Soviet invasion with the security of Pakistan by holding a meeting of foreign ministers in Islamabad.

For President Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, the opportunity is a good one. In addition to the usual Third World problems of high birth rate, low per capita income and unemployment, Pakistan is hampered by heavy foreign debts and a shortage of foreign exchange. These will be compounded by the oil-price rises of December; it is probable that the higher oil bill will eat up as much as 55 per cent of total foreign exchange earnings from export in the 1979-1980 fiscal year. ,

President Zia has already argued that any accelerated military sales or new weapons credits from the United States will be futile if the economy does not stabilize; and he is seeking a rescheduling of debts from the Aid to Pakistan Consortium of major industrial donors. At the Islamabad meeting, he is likely to argue with the Muslim surplus states that his country will be vulnerable without large-scale cash assistance. Saudi Arabia has already committed over $ 200 million in project aid; but President Zia will also be looking for direct assistance to prevent a repetition of the balance of payments deficit of the 1978-1979 financial year.

As a typical Third World economy Pakistan's requirements for investment are large simply if basic needs are to be met. With agriculture forming the largest sector of the economy (about 30 per cent in the last financial year), per capita income, not surprisingly is low at $ 250, according to Pakistani officials. The population of around 78 million is increasing at about 3.5 per cent per year - one of the highest ratios in the world - and could be 160 million by the year 2000. Official figures put unemployment at two per cent of the-workforce, but the country suffers from what is known as "disguised unemployment".

Given the high birth rate and low income, domestic savings are low and Pakistan claims it is becoming increasingly difficult to mobilize funds not only for development but also for the provision of basic services to Pakistanis, particularly in the countryside.

To fill the gap, Pakistan has looked outward for assistance believed to run at $billion to $ 1.1 billion every year. But due to the rising cost of servicing earlier loans and repayment of foreign debts, the net financial inflow is put at around $ 400 million a year.

Government figures show the gravity of the situation. Over the past 29 years, financial assistance estimated at $ 15.8 billion has been contracted. Of this 25 per cent was extended in the form of grants and grant-like assistance, and the remaining 75 per cent is repayable in foreign exchange.

The past two decades have been characterized by dramatic changes in Pakistan's foreign debts. The period between the latter 1950s and the end of the 1960s witnessed a huge increase of foreign liabilities, which jumped from $ 200 million in 1960 to around $ 3.6 billion by the end of 1971, including the debts incurred by what has been know-n as Bangladesh since the war in 1971.

The high rate of borrowing continued during the years ending in 1978 to reach $ 7.4 billion ($ 1.8 billion was repaid) by the end of that year. It has since increased to a total of $ 7.8 billion. But the total loans and credits constitute nearly 40 per cent of the GNP, a heavy debt liability by any standard. Part of the reason for the escalation in foreign debt is due to shift in financial assistance from grants and grant-like assistance to loans and credits. The proportion of grants declined from 70 per cent of total foreign aid in 1950-1955 to 9 per cent in the period 1970-1975. The trend has turned upward again recently, but grants still account for only about 20 per cent of the aid given to Pakistan.

Since the formation of the Saudi Fund for Development in the mid- 1970s, Pakistan has received commitments of over $ 200 million for projects. At the same time, Pakistan apparently received 66 pro ram19 credits not linked to specific development items, although these are not generally published by the Saudi Finance Ministry. There were reports that President Zia had received fresh cash commitments during his visit here last month, but he only announced that the SFD had agreed in principle to further project aid. This could be for a further $ 200 million.

Since the early 1970s, the Pakistani economy has had to operate without the country's east wing. The reshaping of Pakistan's economy to the new reality of Bangladesh was very costly both for Bangladesh and Pakistan.

One of the emerging changes came with the government of the late Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. From December 1971 to the beginning of July 1977, Bhutto adopted a radical social program, introducing a number of measures that included nationalization and social reform.

In the presence of a government information officer, Pakistan's Secretary of Economic Affairs told "Saudi Business" that the program had a dampening effect on the country's investment climate. Aftab Ahmad Khan, considered a top authority on Pakistan's economy in his own right, said public investment has been increased in an effort to remedy the situation, but that overall deficiencies in management created a retarding effect on the rate of economic growth.

Bhutto's social program was not the only reason, for the relative decline, and Aftab Ahmad said other factors which played a role in slowing down the rate of growth included the late commissioning of the Tarbela Dam, (the largest earth filled dam in the world), and the drought and floods that continued as a result. Other problems were on a much larger scale and stemmed from the overall recession in the industrialized world.

"First was the boom and then the slump in 1974-1975, coupled with an increase in oil prices; although it is not right to attribute the international economic maladies to oil prices, the sudden increase on developing countries like Pakistan was severe and aggravated the balance of payments," Aftab Ahmad said.